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Garage/mechanics saga continue

5K views 47 replies 16 participants last post by  good dog 
#1 ·
I thought I will mention about it, as it really shows the situation with garages/services in this country.
So I have a leaking AC condenser, and want to replace it. So knowing how painful it will be over here, I decided to source condenser. I was stupid thinking I can just go and buy a part. So I went on-line. Want to get it fast, so I found seller on ebay stating it has three Niessenss in stock, and will delivered it to me withing 3 days. I thought - perfect. Order it and.....
Parcel arrived two weeks later as gentlemen just put on ebay stuff he doesn't really keep in stock, so my condenser was going from Niessenss.
Anyway, bite myself and move forward. Call today few local guys asking for quotes to replace condenser (I want to do it myself, but honestly I don't want to open system without extracting gas). I become speechless, the best was Halfords - 400 pounds! I asked guy 3 times did I hear correctly?! Then some other mupet from local coolcar ac specialist. Ideally he want to have a car for whole day, 250 pounds for work, and re-gasing, and no warranties as I provide parts!
So I asked him, which condenser he would fit? He said universal from their webpage (Chines cra... for 40 quid, when I have genuine Niessenss for almost 90)!! I start asking why he wont give me warranty, he said, it is their policy not void warranty if customer bring his own stuff, even if this an oring!

So pissed off I call the AC specialists I am using in Poland. Explained situation, and he said not a problem. It will cost you 40 quid all together, with service. He said, it is so simple to change condenser on Subaru he will charge me only for parts and re-gasing. On top of it, when you doing AC service in Poland they always sanitize system, and replace pollen filter. To addition he said as usually 24moth warranty, for work, and he said he would use Niessenss by himself, so he was very happy I bought good quality replacement.

And then you wonder, why I complain so much?!
 
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#2 ·
Lucas I understand exactly why you complain so much!

The A/C compressor in my wife's 15 year old Toyota Yaris failed last year and the cheapest quote I could get to replace it was £600. Of course the car isn't worth spending the money but to be fair it's the only thing that's broken in 15 years.
 
#3 ·
You know Mike, is not really about money, but is more the attitude. Whenever I turn round people are like 'take it or fuc.. off'?! Really? Do those people don't see they will lose the job, company, clients? Is it really worth being so proud, or having everything in the as...?
 
#4 · (Edited)
Unfortunately there's too much poor service about, and it's not just to do with vehicles: too many people think "what can I make out of this" when they see a customer in a fix rather than charging a fair price. I feel privileged to have found an outfit that work on my car who are excellent and honest as the day is long, though maybe the wasters get exposed more quickly here in a rural area up North where word gets round quickly and we tend not to mince our words and call a shovel full of s**t just that >:) (and I'm not talking about soot)
 
#5 · (Edited)
I don't know why you bother asking UK garages to do work for you Lucas when you know that the outcome / quote / level of service / quality of workmanship / attitude of staff / level of experience of mechanic / price etc is going to be unacceptable to you ?

You obviously have high standards (which is correct and commendable and normal for people with perfectionist traits) but it's a bit like my good friend at work (she's from near Rodomsko) and she always moans about the quality of Scottish bread compared to Polish bread and I ask why she continues to eat it when there are so many good Polish Delis here in Edinburgh (and some good mechanics too btw).

Find a good one
 
#10 ·
The answer to above is very simple - occasionally my car break (and your Polish friend in work is occasionally hungry). In both situation, you can't simply move forward, and simply not eat, or not commute. Sometimes, I am tied by work (I think you want me to pay tax in your country?) and would like to have some job done by other people. Forgive me but I am not completely crazy yet, to buy machine for servicing AC. And in both case above you have to admit price were taken from the moon?! So at the end of the day, we coming to this country to work, we paying taxes, we boosting your economy, and in return I would like to have a privilege to use some of the services.
As usually you among others are very defending regards your country and again, shame you don't understand the problem is on your side.
As I said before it is not about money, it is about attitude.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I understand your frustration Lucas, but I would say you're not comparing apples with apples.

You went to some mechanics/garages you don't know and have no relationship with in the UK and your trusted mechanic in Poland.

As above, I have a trusted mechanic, who I would now regard more as a friend. He would have treated me just like your Polish mechanic did. I know this as he has done some stuff for me at no cost before, knowing he has more significant work in the pipeline.

I bet if I called a Polish garage I would not get the same result and would probably feel just like you currently do.

Whilst your example is extreme, if you look at it objectively, you can't blame a garage for being concerned if someone they don't know supplies a part and expects a warranty. I wouldn't warrant something I had no control over. I know you could show the part is genuine, but it is still your responsibility not theirs, so why should they be on the hook if it fails?

I guess that this is a down side attached with doing lots of work yourself, as when you need help, you haven't spent the time building contacts to work on your car. You probably win overall though in terms of cost.
 
#11 ·
Couple of details Gareth:

1. This is not trusted garage, just a guy, I simply use for AC works (believe it or not most people in Poland service AC regularly once a year = re-gas, filter, and sanitization). It happens I have his sticker on my car, with a phone number as the guy doesn't even have a web page.

2. I am afraid, you talking as usually about something else. He should void warrant for work he is performing, and it is very nice excuse, to say hey you bring the parts I can mess up whatever I want and still I will be fine.
 
#7 ·
What I get from this thread, and agree with, is this modern pervading attitude in the UK of business owners having no regard for their own long-term viability and seemingly trying to squeeze as much money from people in the first instance as possible.

I too have an amazing mechanic who is as much a friend now as a 'paid employee'. I'm lucky. I've invested time and money in his business over the years and we've built a good, honest relationship.

In 25 years of doing business here in the U.K. and in Europe I'd say we're now plagued with this 'if you don't like it you can f**k off' attitude. I split my time between Sheffield London Barcelona and other European towns and cities and I have to say the standards of service across mainland Europe are, in the majority, significantly higher than in the UK.

I'm not being down on the UK, don't get me wrong. I've spent years in customer focused employment and there are some good people out there ready to appreciate individuals clients' business.

It's my belief that our archaic class system has left people either grovelling at your feet if you're someone hat has a 'money no object' attitude, or telling you to take a running jump if you query the price or the standard and quality of the work and/or equipment/parts/service provided.

Things need to change, particularly in light of the recent EU referendum. If we're not carful the UK will be left for dead.

1. We're an ISLAND disconnected from the continent culturally, physically and politically.

2. Britain really isn't Great any more. Empirical rule was centuries ago. We need to wake up and smell the coffee if we're to avoid another massive economic downturn.

Pumping more money into an already failing economy just isn't the answer. The answer lies in people, the personal touch, and the skills we bring to the work we do; work which we should take great pride in. Sadly these days people just no longer seem to care.

It's such a shame.

Mike
 
#12 ·
I'm not being down on the UK, don't get me wrong. I've spent years in customer focused employment and there are some good people out there ready to appreciate individuals clients' business.
Mike,

As a balance to all other replays over here, first of all I appreciate you can stand and say all that at loud.
Secondly believe it or not I met really few fantastic people, and done great business with them. So as you said not all people are bad, and don't understand surrounding world, but majority has a problem with it.

Lucas
 
#8 ·
Lucas I can understand your frustration however I believe there may be a few things at play here, Banstead Stig has already pointed out several of them.

Firstly, Overall you've done well by sourcing a more cost-effective solution elsewhere. Ccongratulations on sourcing a good outcome in Poland. Assuming you can get there, that looks to be your best option.

I would suggest some of the price difference comes from the relative labour (an perhaps other) costs in the respective countries.

Perhaps the UK companies don't want your work. At least in Australia, one way of getting rid of non-wanted work is to provide an unrealistically high quote. The reason they may not want the work will vary, from disinterest to being full up.

It sounds like you and the UK service providers may have differing expectations and this is leading to frustration and misunderstanding.

It's reasonable to me that the service provider would not warranty the item you provide to him/her. After all, he/she cannot verify the source of the part, you could be giving them a dodgy one, if they were to warranty it they would have to replace it. It would be an open conduit to fraud. Again, this is what would happen in Australia but I'd expect the UK to be similar. It may be in Poland they are glad you can source a quality part. Again, differing expectations.

However they should warranty their labour and anything else they do. That would happen in Australia, in fact it is in law and the law goes beyond that to "a reasonable expectation"; don't know about the UK. However for them not to warrant their side isn't very good, if this was the case.

It can be sometimes that simply a foreign accent (if you should possess one) can be enough to cause issues with some people. Sad, but true (and wrong).

Showing frustration- and it sounds like you may have- can cause issues and will be evident in your approach. If you can remain calm and instead of using a direct question use a suggestion, e.g. "Would it be possible to use/source x?" rather than "what would you use?". Especially if it's a quality part, a lot of the tradies will themselves be frustrated by having to use the cheapest possible stuff simply to price-beat others. They like it when people want to use better quality stuff and it often means less trouble for them. You also can start building a relationship with the supplier. However, you still have to pay!

BTW, I had my A/C compressor die just before Christmas (remember: up to 40C here in Oz at Xmas!). It cost us $3000 (what's that, ~1500 GBP or ~2000 Euro) and the guy was good enough to stay until after closing on Christmas Eve just to get us going. And no that wasn't an excessive price, he had to go back to Subaru to get the right compressor- the aftermarket one with the correct number was physically different- problems of a small, far away market- and no European mainland for us to go to! But he fixed it, warranted it and now knows me from a couple of jobs- which is why he helped us out at Christmas.

Best of luck with the A/C (and the car).
 
#9 ·
It can be sometimes that simply a foreign accent (if you should possess one) can be enough to cause issues with some people. Sad, but true (and wrong).
Unfortunately, this happens a lot.

My wife is Swedish and I've lost track of the number of times when I've had to put people in their place because of it.... the kids head teacher did it once not knowing I was English as I have a Danish surname.

I can be quite well spoken when I need to be and the look on his face when I started expressing my views on the subject was priceless. Amazingly, we've not had an issue with the school since! :biggrin:
 
#16 ·
May I inject a little good news here?

Last week I took my non-functioning A/C to a specialist in Reading. They spent 1.5 hours checking it over, degassing etc. after which it was working (sort of) but only accepted 80% of the refrigerant.

I took it back today for a free check-up. They degassed and refilled it again and everything is fine. Perhaps it was an airlock the first time?

Anyway the bill for all this was just £54 which I think is excellent value.
 
#18 ·
Lucas

I suggested you just need to find a good trusted mechanic over here and made the point that you seem to be constantly let down by our services here and your smarmy reply to me makes me think that I wouldn't really want to go the extra mile and offer you good service or customer service either.

Maybe, just maybe, the problem sometimes lies with you ?
 
#22 ·
Smarmy replay?! And I thought you Brits know everything about sarcasm....
Perhaps if you wouldn't be so proud, you could go an extra mile, and understand my reply.

Or maybe, always, just always the problem lies with you guys?

But don't worry, as I said I leaving this said place, so British nation, garages, ebay, and all cheeky sellers over here on forum, won't have to deal with me no longer. I am sure that will save your economy form falling down...:wink2:
 
#19 ·
Just a comment from the US perspective:

There are mechanics and then there are "R+R guys"-- in other words, they have no understanding of how anything works and only know how to unbolt a part and bolt in another one. If it doesn't fix the problem they replace another part and keep doing so until the problem is fixed.

In California the real mechanics are the older guys. An excellent radiator shop run by older guys (who probably retired) closed around me and was bought out by a chain. The new owners / workers are either incompetent and / or crooked, hard to be sure which.

In response to the posts about shops having good customers to whom they are fair and rude to the others, how do they attract new customers if they are rude to new prospective customers?
 
#20 ·
Personal standards differ from person to person. I think Lucas sets a very high bar that i would be surprised if all but one or two garages in the world could ever meet. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but it doesn't mean that the garage(s) in question are not good - just that they do not meet the standard expected by Lucas.

I set the bar lower on the basis that i think most garages are completely **it and therefore to find one that isn't is a good find in my opinion. I now use only two garages for work on my Subaru's, but they are stlll not perfect and still make the odd mistake, but they treat me fairly and appreciate my business.

I don't think any comparison to Polish garages v UK garages is beneficial to the thread. As Banstead Stig points out there are good garages in the UK and good ones in Poland and my experience of Polish workmanship in many other sectors suggests this is much the same across the board. I doubt anyone has performed sufficient research to suggest otherwise.
 
#23 ·
1. That's not how it reads in your initial post. Indeed, it still sounds like someone you've used several times and got to know.

Yes there are people that provide poor service in this country, but that's not everyone and it's really tiresome reading about it.

There's a house opposite me being renovated by a gang of Polish builders. They've spent over a year so far and it is not that big a job, nor is it finished. My brother in law is a very good quality builder and reckoned four months tops for that work with a decent gang.

They're a complete bunch of ***** and their work looks ****, their site management is woeful and they have damaged the next door neighbours cars and house, the highlight being leaving one single skin wall standing when removing a garage that fell onto the other house on a windy evening and crushed their shed, smashed guttering, etc. If it had happened when their children were in the garden it could have killed one of them.

The list goes on and on. Do I therefore think all Polish people are useless *****? Of course I don't. Neither do I tell anyone who will listen about it.

I work with offices all over the world and see varying standards of service, sometimes in the same office, sometimes in different locations within the same firm. It happens everywhere and whilst there are certain national traits there is always variety in quality. Certainly that's the experience in my industry.

I pride myself on client service, have won awards for it. This in a firm that regularly comes out top in the accountancy industry client satisfaction surveys, so I'm really not someone who accepts poor service.

Either you are very unlucky or very unreasonable in your assessment of the service available in this country.

2. What do you mean by your "as usually" comment? Re read your post. You stated the places wouldn't give a warranty because you provided the part. I commented on that. If you didn't fully explain the position, that's not my fault. If you provide a part which to them is of unknown origin, it introduces the risk of failure to the job, so they're reluctant to warrant it. That is reasonable.

I absolutely agree that if they do something that causes the failure of the job, that's on them and you should be protected. I didn't say anything different that.

I can understand why they don't want that job though. If their business model includes a turn on the parts then by not having that they need to recoup the money. That may be why the price looks even higher.

You may not like the take it or leave it attitude, but that is their prerogative and there's no guarantee this will damage their business if the demand is there. It's frustrating, but people are driven by incentives and their values.

I get royally ****ed off by the attitude of loads of service providers. My son's nursery being a great example. I complained and complained and nothing fundamentally improved. They have a huge waiting list and don't need my business. My daughter won't go there, but their business will be entirely unaffected. How does that drive them to change? It won't as there's no incentive. There should be as they should have pride in their profession, in my opinion. They don't, so I've found somewhere else that does.
Really guys, your experience with Polish workers? This is one of your biggest problem. How thick you have to be make that sort of assessment.
I spent 25 years living in Poland, and working over there, then I started traveling, spent 2 years in US and nearly 6 years in UK, visiting other countries on occasion. Nevertheless, I worked here, and there, learn culture, people, etc, so in my view I have enough experience on both sides to comment and compare.
Now most of your gents furthest you have been is Spain and that only for 2 weeks holidays, but based on that you seems to know everything. Polish builders, are crap, Polish bread is crap, Polish people coming here and living on benefits, taking jobs, from 'highly educated Brits' etc, etc, etc.
I am more than happy to get criticism form the person who were living in Poland for at least a year? Anyone of you over here?

And finally about lowering expectation? Maybe if you people would realize what you doing to all of you by 'lowering' expectation you would understood where is root cause of the problem? Instead you still live 'Great' Britain dream which looks like died several years ago.

P.S. for the admin, I am more than happy to accept any consequences due to above post. I have been insulated several times over here directly, and in-directly, so here it is my real thoughts about this magnificent country, and people.

Have a great day all of you.
 
#21 ·
I really don't have a 'local' Subaru workshop here in SE London so I'm like you, I've found a couple of brothers just around the corner - one runs a body shop operation, the other the mechanical side. They took my old Impreza in when I stacked in the front end - just short of £500 compared to the insurance companies preferred workshop of over £1200. Only thing I missed out on was a courtesy car buy hey, I worked around it for those few days.
Same with the servicing; never had any cause to complain. I've taken own-sourced parts in, he's fitted them but noted his invoice accordingly. In any case, that part would carry its own warranty so wouldn't expect him to guarantee it as part of his work.
Let's be honest, Konkret has always moaned about some supplier / workshop or another. We should all be used to it by now.
 
#25 ·
Lucas - Your post sadly achieves very little except for highlighting your views which don't really have any place on a forum like this. I hope it is mostly if not all said in the heat of the moment and that you might reflect on your comments at a later point and see how you will come across.

All the posts on this thread have been very fair and reasonable except for yours and that comes from someone who has worked in Poland over a number of years and have grown to see it is a nation i feel very close to.
 
#28 ·
That is enough. This forum will not tolerate such comments degrading other nationalities.

Lucas, it is quite apparent you started this thread just to complain about the UK. This is nothing new with you, but in light of recent events in the EU, these anti-brit comments are going to cause more arguing.

If you don't feel welcome in the Europe forum, don't participate there. If you don't feel welcome in the UK, don't live there.
 
#31 ·
Wow, really? Did you read this post?
As far as I remember not the first on You Josh where you don't read it fully. I am following you brilliant as always advice and leaving UK. I might follow second part as well, about not participating in EU section - thanks for that.

Oh, and if it is nothing new with me why you never spoke about that with me? Huh, I think around 3 months back if memory serve, during one of your (admin) crusade against a guy who dare critisize you (admin's) have been ban from this forum, as apparently he was an internet troll, I explained in detail my point of view, and why my comments have this, not other tone?
Did you bother to replay?

Don't give me hard time, now that I started this or that. I basically commented (according to forum rules) about bad experience with garage/mechanics in UK. Some of 'gentleman' over here have big issue with saying anything bad about anything related to their country.
And I am sorry, but I won't be sitting quite under table, only because some let's call you 'power group' has magical button - BAN, particularly when I am insulted.

If you don't like it. Close the thread - now it is obviously coming out of control, getting nasty, and I am sure it will become even worse.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Can you really not see that the things you claim have insulted you are nowhere near to the level of comment you've made?

You've slammed a whole nation. No one else has. There have been two examples involving Polish people as far as I can see in the thread. Mine was, as I'm growing tired of stating, given to demonstrate how there's good and bad everywhere. It was not a comment on a nation.

So are you saying you've set out to insult people? I doubt it, so why can't you recognise that of others?

You cannot have it both ways.

It's starting to feel like you're just looking for an argument and to play the victim, which I wouldn't have expected of you.
 
#41 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by shroud View Post
Lucas - Your post sadly achieves very little except for highlighting your views which don't really have any place on a forum like this. I hope it is mostly if not all said in the heat of the moment and that you might reflect on your comments at a later point and see how you will come across.

All the posts on this thread have been very fair and reasonable except for yours and that comes from someone who has worked in Poland over a number of years and have grown to see it is a nation i feel very close to.

Lucas posted - I would be more than happy to listen your story, as it sound very unrealistic. I met only one person, who lived and worked in Poland though 6 years being over here.
As usually it is my fault, the same as I am sure it was in all instances when British people were 'unpleasant' for me...

Lucas - As on so many occasions you once more seem to misread the post, which i assume is down to your understanding of written English, as you claim to have read Banstead's post a number of times yet still don't seem to get it. You refer to only meeting one person who has lived and worked in Poland as a means of justifying why the fact that i had worked in Poland for a number of years must be unrealistic. The lack of logic in the argument is bewildering and to suggest you would be happy to listen to my story whilst believing it to be a lie is just a plan daft comment to make. I'm not wasting my time responding to that request nor any further posts on this thread. You have a nice car and have helped a number of members with car related queries, which should be recognised, as other members have already, but constantly insulting members and the nation from which most of those members were born isn't really going to get you far.

There's a saying 'don't burn your bridges'. So far the bridge you are currently on is almost burnt to a crisp!
 
#43 ·
You said "for some reason you 'Divide and conquer'. A bit funny, and sad in the same time in my opinion, which I said many times before." Is that not a reference to the staff as a whole?

I would suggest you go back and read this whole thread, but switch the countries around. Any time somebody mentions the UK, change that to Poland. Any time someone mentions Poland, switch that to the UK. If someone posted that all garages in Poland are overpriced, do shoddy work, and don't deserve your business, how would you feel?

Criticism is more than welcome. Check out this sub-forum for specific example: Dealer/Vendor Reviews - Subaru Forester Owners Forum Notice none of them paint an entire country with a broad brush.

We have an ongoing discussion in the staff area (over 3,000 posts long) where we discuss all members. I can't share that with you, since you are not the only one discussed. I will share the following quote, which is what I said about this specific thread in our staff discussion:
Honestly my very last comment on this thread.

1. @shroud

"There's a saying 'don't burn your bridges'. So far the bridge you are currently on is almost burnt to a crisp!"

Vice versa.

And you should now far better than anyone else if you really worked with other Polish people (other nations) which English is not primary language that putting on the table card with language is very low, in fact so low I won't put further comment.


2. Josh, my comment about myself - I would agree with it in 10000%. Just one small detail you missed.
I am coming back to Poland, not dieing. We have internet on the East and I am taking car back as well - so I don't see how that is my last 'hurrah whining about how foreigners are treated in the UK'?! But it good to know what people think about you in the depth of their heads.:wink2:

As stated before, I am happy to take any infraction points for all above. I could argue with you and other all day long, as in my opinion you are not right, but unfortunately I have other stuff to do. So if anyone would like to continue discussion please PM, me.

I have sent you a PM, and I am more than welcome to continue this personal argument on there or in Purguratory with other admin stuff if they wish.
 
#42 ·
You said "for some reason you 'Divide and conquer'. A bit funny, and sad in the same time in my opinion, which I said many times before." Is that not a reference to the staff as a whole?

I would suggest you go back and read this whole thread, but switch the countries around. Any time somebody mentions the UK, change that to Poland. Any time someone mentions Poland, switch that to the UK. If someone posted that all garages in Poland are overpriced, do shoddy work, and don't deserve your business, how would you feel?

Criticism is more than welcome. Check out this sub-forum for specific example: Dealer/Vendor Reviews - Subaru Forester Owners Forum Notice none of them paint an entire country with a broad brush.

We have an ongoing discussion in the staff area (over 3,000 posts long) where we discuss all members. I can't share that with you, since you are not the only one discussed. I will share the following quote, which is what I said about this specific thread in our staff discussion:

I feel like this thread has gone exactly how Lucas expected it would when he posted it. Maybe he wanted to vent and start an argument. It sounds like he is moving back to Poland and just wants to have one last hurrah whining about how foreigners are treated in the UK.

That said, there should be a zero tolerance policy for comments degrading other countries and nationalities.
 
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