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Old 11-19-2012, 06:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Smile EJ25D Rebuild project

I picked up a 98 forester which blew its engine from lack of oil. I attached a chunk of the remaining piston with welded in rings, looks like something out of edward scissorhands. the cylinder itself has a nice crack in the wall which i will post later.

guy had also bought an ebay engine with unknown miles and disassembled it without labeling a damn thing. heads, valves, bearings, everything just tossed into a box. Anyway, that is why he sold it and I picked it up as a project to torture myself.

This is my first engine rebuild so please be gentle! I have done a headgasket job before and was successful.

The crank bearings and rod bearings are marked from King, and say .25 on the marking. I cant quite tell if its undersized or oversized. visual inspection they look very good, but i have no idea which one goes to which journal. Am i asking for trouble just putting these back in?

I'm running into the same exact issue with the Pistons. I am learning that they could be marked as A or B, so I could at least tell which cylinder they go into, but again i'm not positive.

Finally, the psycho completely disassembled the heads and just tossed everything into a box, i suppose a machine shop can put it all back together but they will probably curse me as well.

Any advice on any of these topics? I'm open for everything from sympathy to admiration

chunk of piston View image: 2012 11 17 19 42 14
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow... not something I would want to do off the cuff, good luck. Did he mark the cylinders, cams, etc? If he didn't it is going to make it much harder to put together. Pieces tend to "mate" and wear with each other. When you take it apart, you want to put it back together the same way.

This EJ25D is DOHC which makes the top end different but the bottom end should be pretty much the same. I have a spare 2.5 block I can reference if you need some help.


Regarding oversized vs undersized bearings - do you know if the block or crank were re-machined?
Main Crankshaft Bearings: Use Oversized or Undersized Bearing

If you don't know or can't visually see, you could take some measurements and determine. Micrometer the crank and mains to see which one is thicker or thinner than spec.

First thing I would do is clean, sort and inventory the pieces. Figure out what you need and if it is even worth rebuilding before buying a lot of new pieces.

IIRC, the cams should have LE, LI, RI, RE stamped on them.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:01 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Really on the bearings you need to measure every thing out to know what you need and if the ones you have are the correct size. Other wise it can be a quick trip for the replacement engine to look like the first engine.

As for the heads, I would have a shop give them a full valve job. Parts in a box are some thing they will be used to, don't worry about it.

Pistons and cylinder bores can be measured to tell you what is what("A" or "B") and you can sort out parts that are good from their or order new ones.

If you don't have the equipment/tools to measure the every thing out your best bet is to drop it off at a shop who can mic the crank, pistons, cylinders, mains and rods and go from there.

A Factory service manual will be a good start.

Engines in a box are nothing to be scared of. Always go into it with the notion that every thing is junk, any thing that is good is a bonus.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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thanks thats a great start thanks!! I still have the blown engine so i can use it to reference what goes where and so on, and cannibalize bolts etc if i need them. I'm going to completely tear it down so I can practice putting everything back together correctly, and to see the further carnage on the bad engine.

I'm already far along with inventorying all the bolts, i think i found all the bolts for the engine core so i'm good there. Since i went through a headgasket job recently I actually remember quite a bit from memory for the rest of the work.

I do not know if anything was re machined already, but the engine halves are pretty clean. I picked up a harbor freight digital caliper, but it looks like that is not good enough. I will pick up a micrometer set from harbor freight, it has pretty good reviews.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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If you just want it done, you may be farther ahead just getting another lower mileage EJ25D, replacing the HG, timing belt and related.

Personal recommendation is go to a engine shop and have a talk with them about them sorting it all out and assembling the short block and building the heads. Either you bolt the heads on or let them do it if you get a better warranty.

If you want to torture your self on your first engine build by all means have at it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
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naw its a project and not in a hurry, i want to learn along the way and I am OK with potential failure. if it fails I will likely go for a reman. thanks again for the advice!!
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cptbarkey View Post
....

I do not know if anything was re machined already, but the engine halves are pretty clean. I picked up a harbor freight digital caliper, but it looks like that is not good enough. I will pick up a micrometer set from harbor freight, it has pretty good reviews.
Measuring equipment when building an engine is not some thing to go cheap on. Even for a one time deal. You need gages that have .0001"(1 ten thousandths) accuracy or better. Some of my stuff goes down to .00002"(20 millionths). Let alone being proficient at reading them.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
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OK thanks, I will school myself on micrometers for sure. appreciate it!
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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OK thanks, I will school myself on micrometers for sure. appreciate it!

Fowler makes some inexpensive (<$100) Micrometers and Calipers that are quality. Some also measure down to .0001. If you plan on making your hobby a job, check out Starrett.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'd check out ebay for some second hand mics, you will need to calibrate, but I've seen some bargains.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Fowler makes some inexpensive (<$100) Micrometers and Calipers that are quality. Some also measure down to .0001. If you plan on making your hobby a job, check out Starrett.
When I need a gage to modify for a specific job at home or at work I will order Fowler. Up until a few years ago they seemed OK. Over the past couple of years I have had to send a couple back that had issues like anvils that were not square on mics and a digital caliper that had random readings. I still consider them worth a gamble.

Typical industry standard brands are(in no order and varies by personal feel/preference):
Brown and Sharpe
Starrett
Mitutoyo

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I'd check out ebay for some second hand mics, you will need to calibrate, but I've seen some bargains.
Many of my home gages are purchased via ebay. You really have to know what questions to ask and what to look for in pictures or you can easily get burned. But it can also lead to big scores.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by flstffxe View Post
When I need a gage to modify for a specific job at home or at work I will order Fowler. Up until a few years ago they seemed OK. Over the past couple of years I have had to send a couple back that had issues like anvils that were not square on mics and a digital caliper that had random readings. I still consider them worth a gamble.

Typical industry standard brands are(in no order and varies by personal feel/preference):
Brown and Sharpe
Starrett
Mitutoyo
Good info. I haven't had to buy a mic in years so I didn't know their quality had dropped.

I heard Mitutoyo was a good "budget" equivalent for Starrett. B&S, I've heard of, but never handled. None of the stuff I do requires that sort of precision.

Quote:
Many of my home gages are purchased via ebay. You really have to know what questions to ask and what to look for in pictures or you can easily get burned. But it can also lead to big scores.
Estate sales are a really good place to get used gauges. Some of the old school guys around here were machinists for Delphi and GM and had their own gear. They pass on and the family doesn't know what to do with it so they put it up for auction. I saw one guy who got a CASE of Starretts for ~$50. They looked mint.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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wow, so much good information. i am diving head first into this. reading around and finding alot of similar posts on other forums with similar questions and answers so i think i have alot of parsing to do. thanks again everyone!
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADaughen View Post
....
I heard Mitutoyo was a good "budget" equivalent for Starrett. B&S, I've heard of, but never handled. None of the stuff I do requires that sort of precision. .....
Mitutoyo, is pretty much the industry standard for machine shops, production manufacturing where the employer is providing the inspection equipment. I wouldn't necessarily call it budget, just more common.


But back on topic. cptbarkey, look at what it will take in buying gages just to confirm dimensions and find out what you have. Keep in mind that once you have confirmed what you have if there is needed machine work you'll likely need to find a shop to do it. You would likely be money ahead to pay a shop to spec every thing out for you VS buying gages to do it your self.
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
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picked up several good micrometers on ebay, can anyone comment if this dial bore gage would be sufficient?

Mitutoyo 511-753

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