Adjust your mirrors properly - Page 2 - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #16 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 12:31 PM
Forum Member
 
funkymonkey1002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 9,013
Car Year: 2004
Car Model: 2.5 XT
Transmission: 4eat
Thats pretty much how I do it, but move the mirrors in a little from that. I generally like to know where all the cars around me are, and all cars coming up in the lanes next to me before I even think of switching lanes. It really bothers me how most other people have their mirrors setup, it takes me about 10 minutes when I get into someone elses car to set the seat and all the mirrors juuuust right.

04xt/4eat, 16g, STI bits and bobs
funkymonkey1002 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
Dan
Contributing Member
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: La Crosse area, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,731
Car Year: 12
Car Model: Premium
Transmission: 5-speed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau137 View Post
That adjustment method is absolute rubbish - while it does cover part of the blind spot, it completely screws up your view and perspective in far- and mid-rear zone, making it difficult to see and, more importantly, properly estimate speed and position of the cars in the adjacent lanes behind you.

I've seen some people use their mirrors this way, and I would not want to be their passenger. Neither would I trust them my car. Ever.

Foresters have very good view of the road, and the B-pillar is not very obstructive, so blindspot coverage can be obtained by simply turning you head once in a while. And if you do not want to do even that, just buy those convex blind-spot mini-mirrors - they are cheap, most of them cover all of the blind zone (and more) and do not drag down the style too much. These are very useful in dense traffic, saving you a fraction of a second reaction time to whatever is going on in front of you - but only if used properly (i.e, do not be overly reliant on these, since you might not notice a car w/o headlights at dusk, estimate approach speed incorrectly, etc.)

P.S. Some of the remarks above make me really scared about driving skills of the general population. It seems that most just do not care at all, and take absolutely no steps to improve or even learn the basics properly, while being absolutely sure they're "good drivers"... Jesus Christ!
I'll respect your forceful opinion but am going to try this 'new' way (new to me) for a while and see what works best in my case. In the heavy traffic of Atlanta where I used to drive this would have been supremely helpful, letting me know with a quick glance whether or not I should even bother attempting a lane change, instead of turning my head around just to see if there's a slim chance of making a safe lane change.

Now that I'm rural highway cruising most of the time, it may not be as advantageous since there's normally pleeeeeenty of time to scope things out.

That being said branding everyone who does it different than you as incompetent is, well, false. Nowhere did anyone say that you can now completely stop checking your blindspot with a head turn. This just supplements things. And hey, if it doesn't work for you, then don't use it.

Anyway, folks, try it if you want - it costs nothing and you put things back the old way by fiddling with the controls for 10 seconds. No big deal, right?

SHIFT_to_Subaru
'12 Forester, 5spd - hers
'08 Legacy SE, 5spd - hers
'09 OB SE, 5spd - mine
Dan is offline  
post #18 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 02:27 PM
Forum Member
 
Tau137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,752
Car Year: 1998
Car Model: Forester L 5MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
Anyway, one of the first things the instructor did was tells us 99.9% of us have our mirrors set incorrectly. As he pointed out, how many times has the rear end of your car jumped out and hit you ? Our instructor actually advised against shoulder checks. At highway speeds he said you'd cover the distance of a football field doing a check which is a lot of unseen action in front of you.
Another bunch of bullpie... "Defensive driving school", "insurance companies"... same entities that recommend using "wheel shuffling" exclusively and keep your hands at 8 and 4 o'clock - now that's a sure way NOT to be able to handle an emergency situation. I'm getting more and more convinced that most of this "education" is designed for complete idiots - who should not be behind the wheel in the first place!

"Checking over your shoulder", when done properly (checking the mirror in the process) takes below 0.5 seconds (I consistently do it under 300 ms) - that is less that 15 meters (45 ft) on highway speeds. That is still a non-negligible distance, but without convex mirrors there is no way you can afford not to look during lane changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
Its a great way to set your mirrors, trust me do it. At first its unerving but after a few days you'll get used to it and wonder how you lived without it.
Most people are unable to adequately determine distance and speed to an object in the mirror without a good reference point (i.e., the rear end of your own car). It is also less than optimal to track a single object between two visual sources during a tight or fast maneuver, not to mention that the central mirror simply will not give you good reference when the other car is closing on your rear fender, and neither will your side mirrors set up the way you recommend. In other words, although you will see more area (including a part of a former blind spot - but not ALL of it, and not in the best way possible), you ability to adequately judge and predict the situation will be greatly diminished. Especially on highway speeds.

So I strongly advise against this "shortcut" of a mirror setup in favour of learning (and practicing) proper techniques, which will give you much better awareness and control.
Tau137 is offline  
post #19 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 02:56 PM
Forum Member
 
Tau137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,752
Car Year: 1998
Car Model: Forester L 5MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
That being said branding everyone who does it different than you as incompetent is, well, false.
I did not say that. I did not even mean to imply that... not directly, anyway.

But there are things that I consider less than optimal and even outright dangerous - including the false (IMO, in most cases, for most but - not necessarily all - people) sense of complete awareness this mirror setup might provide. And not all people have a good understanding (or desire to develop one) of the way things work on the road, so some might use a particular advice without fully grasping all the consequences. And since we all share the road, I cannot be completely indifferent to the way other people learn to drive.

I agree though that this mirror setup might work for some people, in particular those with very good capabilities in visual estimation and reflexive spatial reconstruction and memory, those who use the "granny-style" driving exclusively, and finally those who just cannot master anything more advanced (hm... see the previous post). But trying to pull off any sort of fast/aggressive bit of driving (or just being near someone who does) with the habit of using this mirror setup is a sure way to disaster (for all but the few geniuses of the first type mentioned above).
Tau137 is offline  
post #20 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 04:34 PM
Contributing Member
 
MountainBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Whine Country, Sonoma County, CA, USA
Posts: 1,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Turns out I've been setting my mirrors incorrectly since forever:
Yeah, along with 99% of the other drivers on the road! I can usually see the driver in the side view mirrors of the car ahead of me. That is crazy! If the side mirrors can view the car in the same lane behind, then they aren't sideview mirrors!

I've never used the method listed, but it is a good starting point. Check it by having a person walk behind your parked car, and make sure that you can always see them in one of your mirrors. Keep a slight overlap so that there isn't a blind spot between the mirrors.

BTW, if you are tall (6' or more), some car mirrors don't adjust outward far enough to work properly. Or at the very least, you will end up very close to the end of the adjustment available.

2002 S 4EAT
SubaXtreme Sump Guard, Lift & Bullbar
215/65-16 General Grabber AT2
MountainBiker is offline  
post #21 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Smart Cookie
 
RocketEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,084
Car Year: 2007
Car Model: Forester XT Sport
aside from some of the seemingly hostile comments about strangers driving styles, I have an entirely different problem. Since my husband and I often trade driving the Foz the mirrors are constantly being traded back and forth so often its hard to get them put back where I can see well.

Meg
2007 WRB XT Sport Auto
RocketEyes is offline  
post #22 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 04:59 PM
Forum Member
 
Legacy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,147
Car Year: 07
Car Model: Forester XT
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketEyes View Post
aside from some of the seemingly hostile comments about strangers driving styles, I have an entirely different problem. Since my husband and I often trade driving the Foz the mirrors are constantly being traded back and forth so often its hard to get them put back where I can see well.
One option that was popular in 80's cars were the remote mirror settings. Many of the higher end Toyota's I drove had memory positions so up to 3 drivers could have their mirro (and power seat) settings at the touch of a button.
Legacy is offline  
post #23 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 05:00 PM
Smart Cookie
 
RocketEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 3,084
Car Year: 2007
Car Model: Forester XT Sport
ya my inlaws Tahoe has this option. But I can't stand being in the thing hahaha.

Meg
2007 WRB XT Sport Auto
RocketEyes is offline  
post #24 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 05:28 PM
Forum Member
Contributing Member
 
fylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: spain
Posts: 201
Car Year: 2007
Car Model: 2007 forester 2.5XT
Transmission: manual
[quote=Tau137;308753
"Checking over your shoulder", when done properly (checking the mirror in the process) takes below 0.5 seconds (I consistently do it under 300 ms) - [/quote]

While actually agreeing with you about time required for shoulder check which should be a glance at approx 90 degrees allowing peripheral vision to keep you aware of brake light application etc ahead, "I consistently do it under 300ms????????????????????". Who has the stop watch?
fylor is offline  
post #25 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 06:45 PM
Roo
Dr. Detour
Site Founder
 
Roo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Foresters' favorite town!!
Posts: 5,767
Car Year: 98
Car Model: Forester...what else
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tau137 View Post
Another bunch of bullpie... "Defensive driving school", "insurance companies"... same entities that recommend using "wheel shuffling" exclusively and keep your hands at 8 and 4 o'clock - now that's a sure way NOT to be able to handle an emergency situation. I'm getting more and more convinced that most of this "education" is designed for complete idiots - who should not be behind the wheel in the first place!

"Checking over your shoulder", when done properly (checking the mirror in the process) takes below 0.5 seconds (I consistently do it under 300 ms) - that is less that 15 meters (45 ft) on highway speeds. That is still a non-negligible distance, but without convex mirrors there is no way you can afford not to look during lane changes.
1. I'd really like to see your credentials. What driving school do you instruct at? Is it Bob Bondurant? Maybe Russell Racing School, or possibly one of a nice list of high performance driving schools. In order to speak from on high, most certainly you must be a professional driver with the licensing and credentials to back up your high and mighty status, right?

Bob Bondurant teaches the 10-2 and 9-3 steering position depending on the course you're taking ... but you obviously have better credentials than he and his staff have.

2. You try to pass yourself off as better than anyone else here, because you can supposedly check over your shoulder so fast...and you have to brag about how skilled you are in this facet of driving. I'd love to know when your stopwatch starts and stops, especially considering that you're working to focus on something so quickly, process the information your eyes receive and act on that information... which can change quite easily by the time you've started your movement into the other lane. Besides, if you're TRULY an advanced driver (which you claim to be), you would be aware of your entire spatial area surrounding your car at least one lane on each side, and have an instinctive reaction to any situation in which you might find yourself making an emergency maneuver. You should know that. One space in all directions, like you're the center square on the face of a Rubik's Cube (instructor used this reference). If you are truly aware of your surroundings, then you're only using your mirrors as a double check to make sure everything is where you already know they are.


I prefer to be able to look into the mirror as I start my lane change, which eliminates people from two lanes over changing into the spot I've picked out. It's happened before, and I'm able to catch them from wherever they are when they do, so as not to hit them.

With my mirrors set the way they are, I can see one lane to the left, one lane to the right, and directly behind me with the interior rearview mirror. Continuous coverage without any spot for even a motorcycle to hide in...

20+ years of driving, one non-fault accident where a woman pulled out in front of me with less than one second to react, I was able to avoid colliding with her (potentially killing her), and no other accidents on my record. Well over half a million miles of driving...

...and your record?

Please feel free to support our Subaru parts vendors here.
Roo is offline  
post #26 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 06:49 PM
Contributing Member
 
filibence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 2,936
Car Year: 07
Car Model: Forester Sports XT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo View Post
1. I'd really like to see your credentials. What driving school do you instruct at? Is it Bob Bondurant? Maybe Russell Racing School, or possibly one of a nice list of high performance driving schools. In order to speak from on high, most certainly you must be a professional driver with the licensing and credentials to back up your high and mighty status, right?

Bob Bondurant teaches the 10-2 and 9-3 steering position depending on the course you're taking ... but you obviously have better credentials than he and his staff have.

2. You try to pass yourself off as better than anyone else here, because you can supposedly check over your shoulder so fast...and you have to brag about how skilled you are in this facet of driving. I'd love to know when your stopwatch starts and stops, especially considering that you're working to focus on something so quickly, process the information your eyes receive and act on that information... which can change quite easily by the time you've started your movement into the other lane. Besides, if you're TRULY an advanced driver (which you claim to be), you would be aware of your entire spatial area surrounding your car at least one lane on each side, and have an instinctive reaction to any situation in which you might find yourself making an emergency maneuver. You should know that. One space in all directions, like you're the center square on the face of a Rubik's Cube (instructor used this reference). If you are truly aware of your surroundings, then you're only using your mirrors as a double check to make sure everything is where you already know they are.


I prefer to be able to look into the mirror as I start my lane change, which eliminates people from two lanes over changing into the spot I've picked out. It's happened before, and I'm able to catch them from wherever they are when they do, so as not to hit them.

With my mirrors set the way they are, I can see one lane to the left, one lane to the right, and directly behind me with the interior rearview mirror. Continuous coverage without any spot for even a motorcycle to hide in...

20+ years of driving, one non-fault accident where a woman pulled out in front of me with less than one second to react, I was able to avoid colliding with her (potentially killing her), and no other accidents on my record. Well over half a million miles of driving...

...and your record?

Should we hand him a trophy?

just kidding greg

Silly Rabbit, Mod Lists are for Kids!
THE COOKIE MONSTER
filibence is offline  
post #27 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 07:02 PM
Roo
Dr. Detour
Site Founder
 
Roo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Foresters' favorite town!!
Posts: 5,767
Car Year: 98
Car Model: Forester...what else
Quote:
Originally Posted by filibence View Post
Should we hand him a trophy?

just kidding greg
hmm, I'm thinking about it.

The µ trophy. I'm sure he's a top instructor at a very famous driving/racing school, who is here to impart more knowledge from on high than us mere mortals...

...or some kid who's been lucky enough to believe that he's invincible.

Especially the part about "It is also less than optimal to track a single object between two visual sources during a tight or fast maneuver" - if you have the skill to know who is where around you, that minimizes the chances of you being in a situation where you're forced to be in a "tight or fast" maneuver.

Sounds like adult writing, and the spelling and grammar sound like he's educated, but I'm still going to inquire about his credentials.

Please feel free to support our Subaru parts vendors here.
Roo is offline  
post #28 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
Dan
Contributing Member
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: La Crosse area, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,731
Car Year: 12
Car Model: Premium
Transmission: 5-speed
Well, I didn't mean to start anything negative here. I completely agree that physically checking over your shoulder is a good habit to retain. I've always done it that way, even in the middle of nowhere when I haven't seen any cars coming up behind me for some distance.

Either way, it's an option - give it a try and if it helps you to avoid a collision or gives you better SA, then use it. If not, then go back to your preferred method. We're all different so what works for one person won't work for all others. For myself, I'm still in the 'trying it out' phase - 20+ years of doing it the other way makes it feel weird.

SHIFT_to_Subaru
'12 Forester, 5spd - hers
'08 Legacy SE, 5spd - hers
'09 OB SE, 5spd - mine
Dan is offline  
post #29 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 08:14 PM
Super Moderator
Contributing Member
 
bbottomley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New London, NH
Posts: 13,022
Car Year: 2003
Car Model: XS Premium
Transmission: MT
An EMT once told me that fainting is a known byproduct of a sharp glance over one's shoulder. I'd prefer to rely more on a quick scan of my eyeballs across three well adjusted mirrors that cover the entire scene--not ruling out more significant motion when merited.

I'm also a fan of the kind of civil discussion that normally characterizes this place.

2003 XS Premium MT >200k miles! ● 2005 Impreza 2.5 RS MT ● Robin-Subaru Powered Generator
bbottomley is online now  
post #30 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 09:06 PM
rbf
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Turner Valley, Alberta
Posts: 116
Car Year: 2008
Car Model: Forester
Transmission: Auto Unfortunately
Richard Russell wrote up this method some time ago in the Toronto Globe and Mail. I tried it out and have never gone back.

Yes, I still do shoulder check, double check, triple check... and in 40+ years of driving in Toronto traffic and expressways have always lane changed into empty space, so far.

The wide mirrors really do help keep tabs on what used to be the blind spot. Now if it's not in the side mirror, you can see it out of the corner of your eye.

You do get used to judging the distance of the cars behind you in adjacent lanes by their position in the side mirrors and what part is visible.

If it's the rear quarter panel, he's pretty much alongside you.

If it's the complete front bumper, you're likely clear -- of course, you do need to calibrate for yourself.

Quite handy in fast changing situations on the expressways.
rbf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Subaru Forester Owners Forum > General Forums > General Forum

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Subaru Forester Owners Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome