Mazda: Our AWD better than Subaru’s - Page 2 - Subaru Forester Owners Forum
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post #16 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-02-2016, 07:29 PM
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If so, they're being very silly.
Oh, I see another Mazda dealer is doing the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAoRJCNLd1g

So did Mazda find one case where the Crosstrek's AWD doesn't work well, and tell everyone to make videos about it? One of the comments on that page claims the Crosstrek intentionally cuts power to the rear wheels when the steering wheel is fully turned, which would explain why it has problems in this very specific test.

Meanwhile, I can count the number of times I've tried to start moving with a one-inch bump in front of the rear wheels while the front wheels are spinning and turned to full lock... on the fingers of no hands.

Besides, X-Mode.

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post #17 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-02-2016, 07:45 PM
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guess the Crosstek does not have X mode, and yes I believe the CX3 to be a better choice than the Crosstek but the Forester or WRX would dominate any and all Mazda AWD systems. Which is why they only tested that car.

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post #18 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 12:27 AM
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I also wonder if the VDC was on because I know when the steering wheel is turned enough and it senses bad enough slippage it will cut power. Still looks like the XV gets going at 2k rpms, so I don't see their point. I'd rather see the AWD systems compared in a more real world situation when both cars are moving.
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post #19 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 03:20 AM
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Smarter system are definitely better if designed and programmed to perform specific task. Evolution AWD system is much more advance than Subaru system back it first released in 08. Acura SH-AWD system is much better than standard Subaru AWD but its totally different price point. The new Ford Focus RS AWD system is really good and its also based on same concept as Acura system but programmed totally different to embrace hooniganism.

Old Subaru with manual transmission still the best when it comes to simplicity and consistency. Old Subaru driver would agree that new Subaru AWD are not as predictable as old one. In order to save fuel newer Subaru AWD does not transfer torque 50-50 all the time anymore. Its more capable if equipped with X mode, VDC etc but definitely not as predictable.
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post #20 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 05:49 AM
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to settle all of the debate there needs to be a 3rd party test performed with all of the cars on the same course with the SAME TIRES on all vehicles.

Until something like this happens, I don't know if I can accept that this is better than that or that is better than this. So far we have one scenario where the Mazda performed better than a Subaru...
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post #21 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 05:55 AM
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I always find these type of threads fairly comical, as it usually brings out the symmetric awd worshippers.

In the end, results are the same, whether it be rear drive with front transfer, or front drive with rear transfer. To speak of symmetric superiority is comical especially from an engineering standpoint, because electronically controlled center diff makes it a moot point, with vectoring front and rear especially.

They all get the job done, just arrive there via different roads. ;)
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post #22 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 07:17 AM
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I always find these type of threads fairly comical, as it usually brings out the symmetric awd worshippers.
Let's assume for now that this claim from Mazda is about these videos of the Crosstrek starting with both front wheels spinning at full lock. I looked on Youtube, and I can'f find any other Mazda video where they show their AWD system beating Subaru's, so it seems to be the only possibility right now.

1. They clearly can't beat the Forester, or they'd have shown that.
2. They clearly can't beat the Crosstrek when the wheels are straight ahead, or they'd have shown that.
3. They only 'beat' it in the sense that the Crosstrek had to spin the wheels before enough torque went to the rear, while the CX-3 didn't, because it apparently uses full lock to tell the AWD to push more power to the rear.

The video just seems incredibly lame. There are plenty of ways the CX-3 legitimately beats the Crosstrek, but AWD isn't one of them. To me, it just makes Mazda look desperate.

It's the automotive equivalent of the AMD fanboys running game benchmarks that are GPU limited, and claiming AMD CPUs are better than Intel because, when Crysis is running at 8k resolution and getting 3.0 fps on an Intel CPU, it's getting 3.1 fps on the AMD CPU.
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post #23 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 07:39 AM
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Agreed on the AMD vs Intel lol.

In a real world application, active vectoring awd always come out ahead of passive awd (fancy use of abs or not).

Evos, Stis, GTRs, SH-awd, Audi, blah blah, etc etc....

So in the end, opendiff/viscousdiffs suck, and active diff&LSD rules. Which is something we all know already.
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post #24 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 07:41 AM
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Lol.

They can't get the visibility of the Forester , low CG due to boxer engine, & attack angle and last I checked the Forester / Crosstrek has a FWD bias , but isn't FWD... ever. The Outback / Legacy arguably are in a slightly higher segment due to X-mod ; wrx & Sti even higher.

Mazda has the "fun to drive", high compression ratio, and "fit/finish on a budget" thing down. AWD isn't what I'd look to Mazda for and that's okay : AWD is mainly an attraction in the Pacific NW and NorthEast.

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guess the Crosstek does not have X mode, and yes I believe the CX3 to be a better choice than the Crosstek but the Forester or WRX would dominate any and all Mazda AWD systems. Which is why they only tested that car.
non Turbo Foresters don't all have X-mode

Symmetrical AWD is a wonderful thing
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post #25 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 08:04 AM
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The CX-5 AWD is ballast:

The CX-3 looks to be an improvement. Maybe it just works better in a lighter car:

There's little information to be had about the system (unlike Subaru's which are well understood), but it's unlikely that Mazda employs an always-on AWD setup. I expect it's a temporary rear wheel power squirter with a limited duty cycle just like a CR-V.

I'm skeptical of all the manufacture's videos, but there is plenty of footage of people hooning it up off road in Crosstreks, and doing well.

If Subaru actually cares about Mazda's claims, they'll rig up all sort of "independent" tests to make the CX-3 look foolish. And I'm sure the Cherokee won't be invited to the party.

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post #26 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 08:13 AM
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If Subaru actually cares about Mazda's claims, they'll rig up all sort of "independent" tests to make the CX-3 look foolish. And I'm sure the Cherokee won't be invited to the party.
'Our tests show that an Impreza with the wheels removed has just as much off-road ability as a Jeep with the wheels removed!'
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post #27 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 08:19 AM
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Non Turbo Foresters don't all have X-mode
No Crosstrek with CVT offered in Europe has X-mode.

Two model versions of the N/A Forester and the diesel Forester with CVT offered in Europe have X-mode. It are are always the two best, but also most expensive ones.

For a fair test they also must compare the Mazda with the manual transmission Crosstrek and the manual transmission Forester.
One may guess, why they don't do that...
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post #28 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:05 AM
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For a fair test they also must compare the Mazda with the manual transmission Crosstrek and the manual transmission Forester.
One may guess, why they don't do that...
Probably because very few people buy vehicles with manual transmissions in the US.

Usually MT comparisons are done in foreign countries, like Germany.

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post #29 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:28 AM
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just to clarify acura sh awd is now the honda iVTM-4, which means everyone should buy the honda badge for cheaper
well at least in the case of the pilot.

Acura SH-AWD: A Comprehensive Analysis (Updated Jan.8, 2016) - YouWheel.com - Car News and Review


audi/vw awd whatever, varies by car model and trim so you can get the good quattro
or the 4motion of fun

Audi all wheel drive explained | awd cars, 4x4 vehicles, 4wd trucks, 4motion, quattro, xDrive, SH-AWD, Haldex, Torsen, wiki - How it works


As for mazda lets all get real its marketing. every suv cuv or whatever has been pushing the awd,
4wd, intelligent awd, ......... real hard, hell hyundai offers the ultimate awd thats a santa fe turbo 2.0t
with the ultimate package.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/santa-fe/specifications.aspx
http://www.autoinsane.com/2015/08/19...-awd-ultimate/


this is where i say yes bro, I am mad. A good percentage of vehicles with the awd badge
is simply marketing lets not even talk about the fact that some are awd until you exceed 20mph then
the system shuts off because really who defines what the meaning of awd is. Its like bill clinton's
definition of sex, you can change the meaning of a word or play so many angles its often quite amusing.

Returning to mazda, I can't wait to see them backup their so far unsubstantiated claims until then its all
noise, and as for the crosstrek tests and etc, there are plenty of videos of audi dealerships trolling bmw xdrive
and vice versa. They all do it and all use the test where their car will outperform the competition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zULS0bijkc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdvBqEwEfWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMfUrS98Kbk


So every car brand's dealership, posts inflammatory nonsense videos; only real world data can
truly prove a car's awd capability. I can tell there are plenty of acura rdx drivers who
are not thrilled with acura when the sh awd got replaced by the cheaper honda intelligent awd
and they got to feel the thrill of an inferior system in their luxury car, same goes for the quattro badge game.

Really if mazda wants to get ahead they should start with the massive rust issues which clearly they
have not fixed for the last 5 years or more. Car looks great and all but much like an FCA vehicle the salt
belt will not be kind. Subaru use to have this issue as well and have taken significant steps to rectify
this, just creep under your vehicle once in a while.

Top 10 best & worst rust-resistant cars | TheAutonet.com



/end rant
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post #30 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:49 AM
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They all do it and all use the test where their car will outperform the competition.
That's true in just about every business, but they usually aren't so lame. I've never seen an AMD engineer say 'Look! our CPUs are faster than Intel's in tests that aren't CPU-limited!' for example... they know we'd immediately say '*** have you been smoking, dude?'
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