Went test driving a few weeks ago. Drove several cars, in this order:
Ford Focus RS
Subaru Crosstrek 2.0i Premium 5-spd manual
Subaru Outback 3.6R
Subaru Forester XT Premium
Subaru WRX Premium 6-spd manual
VW Golf R DSG
Volvo V60
VW Golf R 6-spd manual
VW Golf AllTrac SE DSG
Wanted to mention the Forester experience. Subaru has completely castrated this car. It is no longer the driver enthusiast's car that it used to be. It underperforms its predecessors in almost every category. Subaru has clearly shifted the target audience of the FXT. Compared to the 2004 USDM model, the 2017 FXT is less feisty and less fun.
On a positive note, the Crosstrek seems like a tremendous value. The Outback 3.6R also deserves credit, more refined, quiet, and spacious than prior generations.
Hopefully this helps someone else who is in the same market. Should also mention, the VW Golf Alltrac 1.8T can be ordered with a 6-spd. It was not slow.
That's great! Like I said, I think they changed the target demographic. Have you driven the older SG models in comparison to your 2017 FXT? If yes, how would you explain the differences?
They have de tuned the FXT, no doubt. However, it is a different vehicle then the car based unit it replaced. I have a Raptor it will not go over 100-110 MPH, for a reason. It would undoubtedly be very easy to lose control of since it is lifted as is the new Forester. There were times in my FXT that I felt it would get out of control if it had more power given its ride height. If you lowered the Forester like several have done here, and then remove the governors it probably help with the dynamics of the vehicle.
I am actually confused as to your selection, and the multiple of cars you test drove without buying anything. If you want to go into bashing the Forester then maybe a better approach would have been to put this in off-topic the relatives. Since it seems you favor VW over similar equipped Subarus.
I have to chime in. I agree with the others you clearly did not drive the XT in sport or sport plus mode. I have owned WRX's and other sporty vehicles and besides the manual transmission the 2017 XT is very fun to drive and far from underpowered. I just drove 18hrs through 5 states and there was pretty much no car that could touch me when I decided to hit the go fast pedal and my XT passes so quick I'm gone before anyone can even think about speeding up to squeeze me out. As to the CVT the 2015's had CVT issues being laggy but the 2017 is quite smooth with no issues. Oh and just to throw it out there 3500 miles in 5 days and not one drop of oil was burnt.
The '17 FXT has power when needed. I rarely need it because I anticipate and plan constantly, ahead and rearward. But sometimes, every once in a while, it is there when I need it.
On a trip one day a Caddy sedan with a passive-aggressive driver seemed determined to annoy me by keeping just ahead of me in the left lane and blocking my attempts to maintain a constant speed by slowing to the right lane's slower traffic. Not suspecting it was intentional, just a stupid left lane hog, a couple of times when the opportunity came, I left the field and went quite far ahead... enough I figured, given the Caddy's conduct and speed, to get me away from him. Didn't work, there he was in no time... marshaling my progress subtilely.
There came a time I understood. I saw what was approaching was another block behind a dawdling SUV ahead, so I began to speed up as I had time to do so. The Caddy kept pace, so I went a little faster... so did he. When my window had shrunk to a bare minimum I hit the pedal, instantly did the pass at WOT, and swung back into the right lane and braked to my traveling speed well ahead of the SUV in the lane. That Caddy driver was apparently so incensed at my thwarting his agenda that he roared past and but for inches would have side-swiped me. In the many miles to follow he stayed well ahead and didn't try any games with me again. He discovered not all SUVs are slow.
i can agree with the OP, and his reasoning for each car. theyre each related to one or two others in some way, even if they ALL dont relate to each other. and seems like a clear, yet broad overview. but only because theres a very broad range in capabilities of cars on that list.
for forester thing...def made to reach a different clientele. for example...why are there even threads about "turbo or non turbo, for my new forester. is it worth it for me?". you should already know that.
his list was a quick rundown of some "fun wagony" cars (aside from the rex of couse). id have no problem grouping up that list, and driving each...especially if i was open minded about the next vehicle...and didnt go into it hell bend on one thing.
its just we're more used to the "smaller suv" category being listed. where someone has:
acura - the nice performance one. crappy cosmetics.
mazda - the nice interior/exterior feel one. but a true dog when it comes to performance.
subaru - the middle of the pack in ALL areas, rather then shine in one, tank in another. strong throughout.
vw - my friend said they have electrical problems. i liked it, but couldnt get the trim combo i wanted.
bmw/merc - we liked the so and so...but just so much more money and not as good of mpg.
from their listthere...vs only one in the "smaller suv" one.
BUT, maybe thats why the fxt feels like a rocketship in one comparison list (small suv one), but more so middle of the pack , or left out, in another grouping (fun wagony one).
just my 2cents.
I have 2 of the cars on this list. I also owned a SG XT premium manual. All of the cars on this list offer good value. Would I buy the XT again?
Yes.
Do I fantasize about a SJ with a manual?
Yes.
I appreciate that the Forester XT and 3.6 Outback were on the OP's list of comparable cars. Glad I am not the only person that feels this way. As far as 'I' drive vs 'S' and 'SI', I don't think they make that much of a difference in actual performance. For some reason, I thought that 'I' drive was actually quicker, the other modes merely seem quicker. Correct me if I am wrong.
As far as 'I' drive vs 'S' and 'SI', I don't think they make that much of a difference in actual performance. For some reason, I thought that 'I' drive was actually quicker, the other modes merely seem quicker. Correct me if I am wrong.
It all depends on how hard you are pressing the pedal.
At WOT, all of them will be equally fast. Half throttle and you can really feel the difference in programming, as the S# mode will be quite punchy but the I mode will still be subdued.
What about seat comfort / driving position (and your physical size)?
My biggest complaint Re. the current generation Forester is that the seats are horrible horrible horrible (I'm 6'3" 190)
@cre8value
XT Premium is not $38k, it is more like $27k-$28k on the road.
Even fully loaded XT touring will never get sold for $38k, they usually go around invoice...
I personally don't have experience with 2004 XT manual but I always admired that vehicle, it was really special. I did have some brief exprerience long time ago with brand new euro spec 1999 Forester turbo.
When warm and in S#, XT is definitely a lot of fun and allows surprising amount of control for CVT, when you figure out how to use it.
While old XT manual in hands of abusing professional driver can clock some amazing 0-60 and especially 0-30 numbers, new XT is better vehicle in any other measurable aspect, especially in hands of average driver.
I still like much more old XT simple exterior design...
You're right, it was a Touring model, thank you. And I think you're right and said it well, the `04 manual is a really special vehicle, made for a different market segment.
"I" mode is ment for ecomony and around town driving it allows the engine to come off RPMs fast and has a slower throttle response. "S" mode has a quicker throttle response and longer Rev hang. S# has the best throttle response and simulates an 8 speed with shift points keeping you in the power band. Also uses engine braking when you come to a hard turn and decelerate hard or in a panic stop situation. All 3 modes have there place and the best experience is to use all of them in different situations. For example, pullling out across traffic I use S# to get out and up to speed then switch back to "I" once up there and cruise. On a twisty country road let it rip in S# and you are hard pressed to get over 4K RPM case she's pulling hard.
I would suggest another test drive and a long one with mixed situational driving. It really is hard to grasp the capability of the CVT on a shorter drive.
I have to admit, I don't even own a Forester (yet), but why anyone would consider a Forester as a "feisty, fun car" and compare it to a Ford Focus or a VW Golf is beyond me.... Perhaps the OP confused the Forester with the WRX?
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