Chillout

I onr washed, clayed, and sealed today so far. I want to do a better job next weekend because I managed to catch a cold and not feeling into working on the car in 40 degree weather. I did manage to get most of the rust spots off with some finesse of the clay bar, a few were a little harder to remove so I had to put a little more pressure into the clay. It did come out pretty nice with my minimal effort.

Sent from my Skyraider enriched Thunderbolt!

Chillout

Not too shabby if you ask me. I ended up doing a healthy cote of wax as well which was very easy to apply and wipe excess off. Going to get some better pics during the day.


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pigboat_2

Can't wait to see that in sunlight with a good camera. The front end looks awesome!

And reading Kean's post a lot more thoroughly is extremely informative. Guy knows a TON more than I do haha.

__________________
Rawr PFF!

250+k mile club

Chillout

Just wanted to share that autogeek is doing a sale, get $100 credit for $65. If I wasn't so poor this week I'd be shopping for more supplies.
http://www.autogeek.net/members-only.html

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Rudyjr

These promos from Autogeek are killing me! They always have something going on that I can't pass up. I think I am developing a detailing products addiction! Forester looks great, have you made any progress with the horn installation?

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2011 Forester Premium AWP 4EAT Spark Silver

Chillout

No sir, haven't even tried yet with the horn. Call me a wuss but the weather hasn't been warm enough for me to try taking off the bumper. I'm gonna order the bracket and harness in a few weeks and then as soon as spring gets here its on.

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pitrack_1

Recently, I have become a successful practitioner of the "Wash and Polish the Vehicle and Park it Outside" rainmaking ceremony. Last week it was showers after a Mazda 3, this week for the Forester it's showers followed by up to 3 days' rain and storms with possible moderate to severe flooding...

However, I don't wish to rest on my laurels and so I am seeking to speed up the ceremony, improve my holy rainmaking artifacts and preserve my main artifacts (namely, the cars) better, for longer.

I've read what pigboat_2 has said in this thread, the Meguiar's Smooth Surface Clay Kit thread and his "Detailing how-to" video. And so this humble acolyte beseeches to ask a few questions of the holy gurus of detailing!

What I'm ultimately looking for is a good finish with durability. If anything, the emphasis will be on durability over a show-winning shine, however a good finish is still important. 80/20 rule applies i.e. happy with 80% results for 20% time/money/effort input. A longer lasting /more durability version of what I'm currently using would be ideal.

Access to some of items e.g. Black Fire Wet Diamond may be a problem in Australia due to limited or single suppliers (who often seem to be out of stock).

Firstly, some background:

I have the usual applicator pads, microfibre polishing cloths, sponges, brushes etc for washing and polishing.

I used to use Meguiars Soft Wash Gel and Deep Crystal Wet Look Polymer Sealant (DCWLPS) for many years. The results were good but the durability low, only a month under good conditions. The DCWLPS highlighted colours and hid swirls/minor scratches well.

I have currently been using Meguiars Soft Wash Gel and Gold Class Carnauba Plus Liquid Wax. the results have been good- Red Mazda 3 especially- and the durability better as I can reliably get a month or so out of it.

However the Soft Wash Gel has run out it is difficult to find now (in Australia at any rate). So I'll be using Meguiars Gold Clash Wash instead. I've also got a second bottle of the Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus Liquid Wax as the first's running out.

What I do is wash the car one side/area at a time, rinse and chamois dry, apply wax to whole car and buff off with cotton polishing rag followed by once-over with microfibre cloth.

So my queries are:
a) Should I stick with what I'm using- will it produce/is it producing the results I'm after, given ease of supply?
b) Anything else should I try/use, and why?

Thanks,

__________________
Pitrack_1
2010 Forester Diesel

ghat

How To Detail a Brand New Car, featuring a Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG! – Detailed Image

I am still learning myself...
I washed, (2 bucket) clayed as much as I could, applied Klasse sealant glaze
(1 coat is now curing, will do 2nd coat in a day/two) with a porter cable buffer.
Car looks good so far, I have heard klasse lasts 6-8 months which is why I bought it...

G

pigboat_2

My range of expertise is fairly limited to the products that my boss used with Aloha Detailing. His choice of product was based on almost 20 years of experience. When I would ask him questions like, "do you like other clays over Clay Magic" or, "what else would you seal a car with?" His answers always came back the same, "why would I use this product on a customer's car if I like something else better?"

The only exception to this rule was price. He actually has a couple types of sealants that are supposedly "better" than the Black fire, but we never used them because we weren't detailing Teslas or Gumperts.

Other sealants I've heard good reviews about include Klasse, Zymol, and Wolfgang.

The car wash soap you're using is good (Meg's Gold Class). One of the best I've used off the shelf. If you're looking to perfectly wash a car with next to no chances of introducing swirls to the paint, go to this link and scroll down and watch the videos. Obviously you don't have to purchase $200 worth of stuff from Adam's to wash your car correctly, but you can borrow a lot of the same concepts.

__________________
Rawr PFF!

250+k mile club

Kean

….so what you’re looking for is a LSP (last step product; wax/sealant/coating) solution that is:

1) Just as easy to use as what you have now
2) More durable
3) Will provide a decent “look”
4) Will provide some concealing ability

If I got any of that wrong, please let me know.

The good news is that there are a myriad of great products that are available if you know what you’re looking for. IMO, there is not “one” perfect solution that will work for everyone. Just browse through some of the more popular detailing websites like Autopia.org, Detailingbliss.com, Detailingworld.co.uk, Autogeekonline.net, etc. and you will see just how diverse the opinions can be among professionals and enthusiasts alike when it comes to detailing topics. While I have a few favorite products of my own, I learned long ago my viewpoint was quite limited. There are simply too many products, tools and techniques out there and varying factors/scenarios for one person to have all the right answers IMO/IME.

In fact, I would urge you to visit those detailing websites to get an idea of the various products that are available. In recent years/months, there have been some exciting new technologies revealed to the general public. For example, some of the new nano/semi-perm and permanent coatings now available from folks like G/Technique, Optimum and AQuartz. Personally, I currently have Opti-Coat (from Optimum) on my wife’s Forester. It is a permanent coating that requires abrasion to remove (polishing). ….it essentially becomes an additional layer of clearcoat on the paint with characteristics of a wax/sealant. It applies like a WOWA (wipe on, walk away) product but after it flashes dry and cures, it becomes a hard coating.

Speaking of WOWA’s, those are also something you may want to consider if you’re looking for something easy and fast to use. It really doesn’t get any easier. I personally use such a product that is also from Optimum called Opti-Seal. Not ot be confused with “Opti-Coat”, Opti-Seal is a sealant with durability that can last around 2-3 months in my own experience although others claim to get more. You basically wipe the product on a panel and let it dry. The great thing is that it can be used on just about any surface (i.e. trim, paint, hard rubber, glass, etc.). Smearing can be an issue when you’re first getting started and in fact, I still have problems at times. The good news is that any high spots/smears can easily be washed away during the next cleaning or after the product cures for several hours (i.e. like with a quick detailer). Opti-Seal is also very compatible with glazes, waxes, other sealants, etc. I actually started applying OS via an airbrush a while back on the recommendation of a fellow Autopia member. I get great results and can quickly apply the product to intricately curved surfaces like wheels, trim, cowlings, grilles, etc.

Aside from traditionally applied products (wipe on, let dry and then wipe off), there are also WOWO (wipe on, wipe off) products like Wolfgang Fuzion. You literally apply the product on a panel and then wipe it off without having to wait for it to dry. ….hopefully you see my point about sticking your eggs in one basket.


Having said all of that, are you limited to local/retail products or are you able to buy some products online (i.e. like from Autogeek, Detailed Image, etc.)? If you are basically restricted to more locally acquired product lines (or in-country vendors), I wonder if companies like Collinite an FinishKare have distributors in Australia? Both have a couple of products that will easily provide the durability you’re looking for as well as a good look (albeit more of a glossy/reflective sealant-like appearance). FK1000P from FinishKare for example is one of the most resilient products I have come across. It has contaminant shedding ability that (from my own experience) has been better than other products I have tried. Durability is up there with other good sealants (for me, up to 6 months) but it applies like an old-school paste wax. Also, it will cake up in crevices and can stain some trim (it dries white). You need to apply thinly and evenly or it can also be a bit of a paint to remove. However, with two coats I have been impressed with its performance. In fact, I still use it on wheels, exhaust tips and any other surface I want to clean up easily.

Anyhow, sorry for the rambling. One other note I might add is that if you have Duragloss products available at your local store, I would look into trying their Car Wash Concentrate as well (#951 IIRC). I have used Gold Class soap and while I found it decent compared to other OTC products, I was more impressed with DG CWC’s performance. ….you can also feel the difference in lubricity between the two IMO/IME.

__________________
'08 Forester X Prem 4AT TGM
'10 Challenger R/T

pigboat_2

I've heard about this, but I thought that David wasn't even allowed to market it since it is just applying more clear coat to the paint. But hey, there it is on his site. Wow.

__________________
Rawr PFF!

250+k mile club

Kean

The original Opti Coat was only available to professional detailers although I recall an initial release to some non-pro folks with a waiver. The consumer version of the new OC has a longer set time than the the original which makes it more user friendly (~15 - 30 minutes vs 5 minutes IIRC). The professional version still has the same fast cure time but is now called Opti Guard.

OC has been available to consumers for a little while now. I picked mine up from AG as soon as it was available. I had been following a thread by David Fermani on Autopia since he first posted his long-term test. Im glad Dr G decided to finally release this product to the public.


-- sent from mobile phone --

__________________
'08 Forester X Prem 4AT TGM
'10 Challenger R/T

pitrack_1

Thanks
Thank-you all for your replies, especially Pigboat_2 and kean.

Kean: you summarised my post in 4 points so I was the one “rambling,” and if your viewpoint is “limited,” mine is miniscule! You’re orders of magnitude more knowledgeable and I (we?) on the forum are much the better for it. Thank-you very much!

Australian off-the-shelf
To give you some idea of Australian off-the-shelf supply:
- Meguiar’s, Mother’s, Auto-glym, and several other ‘lesser’ brands (Kitten, Turtle Wax, Armor All, Eagle One, etc).
- Our main auto chains are Repco, Super Cheap Auto, Autobarn, Autopro, Auto One. Of these only Super Cheap Auto has comprehensive products listed online.
- Even stockage of off-the-shelf Meguiar’s products is hit-and-miss where I live.
- That's it!

Shipping
As the products generally contain petroleum distillates or other solvents I don’t hold out much hope of shipment from O/S- it rules out airfreight and I’m not sure how they’ll go (if at all) surface- sweltering across the equator in a hot steel box perhaps! Shipment costs are usually high. Have not actually checked it out

Australian online supply
The following are Australian-domain online supply specialists, referenced against their listed brands. I checked the products you listed Blackfire Wet Diamond, Finishkare FK1000P, Optimum Opti-seal and Wolfgang Fuzion were carried, although some of them are listed out of stock. As you can see, quite limited. Initial google.com.au search criteria was “brand-name (glaze,polish) site:.au”. Have not checked Ebay.
- Waxit.com.au/poorboys.com.au: Collinite, Duragloss, Klasse, p21s, Wolfgang, Zaino
- Zas.com.au: Blackfire, Finishkare, Optimum
- Carcareproducts.com.au: Collinite, Duragloss, Optimum, p21s, Zaino
- Uniquecarcare.com.au: Klasse, p21s
- Optimumcarcare.com.au: Optimum products
- Gtechniq.com.au: Gtechniq products

Blackfire Wet Diamond seems to be out of stock, same with Finishkare FK1000P (both zas.com.au only) and Optimum Opti-seal on carcareproducts.com.au.

Back to my wishes...
My head’s now spinning, not from the fumes from all the products and their relative differences! I suppose if I tighten up my criteria and environmental conditions it may help:

1. Australian Environment generally: Very high UV, high temps, dust, dirt, pollen, birds, sea salt (coastline only), no road salt.
2. I’d prefer a polymer sealant or synthetic/polymer reinforced wax, perhaps with a slight polish/swirl remover- must be able to withstand UV/heat. Also not something that chemically permanently bonds onto the finish such as the Optimum products seem to do and requires a perfect surface and environment. This comes back also to a non-ideal application environment at my place (outside, near/under a tree which randomly releases fine yellow pollen or seeds with resin and harbours birds that drop other, more liquid things, dust is also a problem. No proper under-cover).
3. Wipe on, let dry, wipe off is fine but prefer the ‘let dry’ to be 10-15mins (whilst I finish the car). Wipe on wipe off I can deal with. Wipe on walk away I could learn to deal with. I think my conservatism is showing.?
4. Do like the ‘depth’ provided by waxes/polymer sealants rather than just a glaze over the top.
5. Coming back to the Meguiar’s Deep Crystal Wet Look Polymer Sealant- I think what ended up so good about that was that it was a fine polish and protectant in one- therefore maintaining the finish as well as sealing it (albeit for a short time).
6. Hand application only (no machines)

I’m currently considering the Collinte 845 Insulator Wax, Zaino Z2 Pro, GTechniq C2 Liquid Crystal Concentrate or perhaps Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze. But these may mean I need to get a polish (for the older cars) first.

__________________
Pitrack_1
2010 Forester Diesel

Kean

hmmmmm…. Autoglym may be worth a look. Although I have no experience with it myself, I have heard good things about it over the years. I recall their SRP (super resin polish?) was supposed to have some god filling ability which might help take care of some existing marring you may have. It is an AIO (all in one) product from what I remember so it should have some minor correcting ability as well as protection. AIO’s are not typically known for durability but perhaps you can follow up with their EGP (extra gloss protection sealant and/or their HD wax you can extend the durability. In either case, I would suggest doing searches on sites like Autopia.org using keywords “autoglym SRP”, “autoglym EGP”, “HD wax”, etc. It may be the retail solution you’ve been looking for.

I see Waxit.com.au has quite a few decent product lines including the ones you listed and Poorboys, Menzerna, 1z, DP, etc. What you might want to do is look through their product descriptions of the various brands offered by each manufacturer and then do a search on some of those detailing websites I have mentioned. You should then have a better feel for how the products behave and what sort of longevity you can expect from them. I wouldn’t get too hung up on specific brands we might recommend here. By all means, include those in your research, but also make sure to consider other alternatives as well.

Some random info/comments that may help you in your decision when researching some of these products in the various forums (note: LSP = last step product; wax, sealant, etc.)….

Collinite: Popular products you will see mentioned will likely be # 845, # 915 and # 576(?). 845 is a well liked product due to its relative ease of use and decent durability. I’ve used it a few times myself and found it to be a good product with so-so looks. I’ve seen a fair # of folks choose this one as a “winter LSP”. 915 is apparently even more durable with better looks but perhaps a bit more fussy to apply/remove.

Optimum: Opti-Seal is simply a sealant and will not permanently bond to the finish as their Opti-Coat does. OC applies the same but if you do not knock down high spots, they can be visible once the product sets up in 15-30 minutes. OS on the other hand can be wiped down at any time after as I mentioned in my earlier response. ….although the object is to apply a thin layer so this is not an issue. One of the cool things about WOWA sealants like Opti-Seal, Ultima Paint Guard Plus and Zaino-CS is that they can bee applied quickly and easily after a wash if you want to. ….so even if the product doesn’t last that long, it’s at least not a pain to throw on another coat. I typically use OS over existing LSP’s as they being to reach the end of their life (to keep some sort of protection on the paint between full details/corrections).

FinishKare: Their FK1000P is a sealant that looks like your typically old-school paste wax. It has great durability when layered with an additional coat IMO/IME. However, the trick is that you should allow time for the fist coat to cure first. I usually wait a week until I the next time I wash the car. Something I noticed and have heard others say is that FK1000P tends to change its appearance (for the better) a few days later after applied (getting glossier, more reflective, etc.). FK1000P is also touted as a “High Temp” wax which is supposed to resist the effects of heat but honestly, most good sealants should do just fine in your environment I would think.

Duragloss I have seen several comparisons by some folks to Zaino when talking about DG products. In fact, there is a thread somewhere on Autopia.org that makes direct comparisons to each product. Both are great product lines that stand on their own but thought this might be interesting to you in case you wanted something close to Zaino but at a cheaper price.

Zaino: I’ve been a long time user of Zaino sealants like their Z-2 and Z-5 as well as their AIO (ZAIO). Zaino is a product line that is quite easy to use but a little time consuming. In a dry climate, drying times can be cut down but I have had situations where it took a little more than ½ hour between coats before the product would pass the finger-swipe test. Their Zfx accelerator will help speed up cure times, help with durability and allow you to apply up to 3 coats consecutively within a 12-24 hour period. Z-5 is a sealant on it’s own but provides some minor filling ability. Z-2 is a pure sealant with no filling characteristics but better gloss/reflectivity.

Boutique systems like Zaino, Adams and Griots are typically popular with novice DIY’ers since there generally provide everything you need. Their products are also generally better than what those folks are used to using. That’s not to downplay their effectiveness or quality, but if you frequent the detailing forums like I do, you can see

I don’t use their LSP’s as much as I used to but they are still a decent choice. I could usually expect up to 6 months of protection from about 3 coats.

Wolfgang: Their Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 is what is on my Challenger right now. I was fairly impressed with how long one coat has lasted on my car and found it quite similar to something like Zaino Z-2 in the way it applies/removes and performs. I absolutely love their Fuzion but it is quite expensive and not something that would your criteria in other categories I think. It’s more of a wax that you might use on a weekend toy that is mostly garaged IMO.

I could go on for hours but I hope this kind of gets the cogs moving a bit for you. I really think your best bet is what I suggested earlier about picking a few products and then researching on those websites for other opinions/experiences. If you were to force an opinion out of me, I would probably put FK toward the top of my personal recommendation list given the contamination and other environmental challenges you mentioned. ….but again, that’s not to say there isn’t a better product out there for your situation. The only downside might be with the application/removal as I mentioned earlier. It’s definitely not a trim or crevice friendly product.

I hope this helps.

__________________
'08 Forester X Prem 4AT TGM
'10 Challenger R/T

pitrack_1

Kean,

once again brilliant and thanks very much.

As you point out I can't expect an AIO to be the be-all-and-end-all.

Have started some digging already. I was happy to find on the Adam's site recommended by pigboat_2 that my self-developed washing method almost matched their recommended method anyway (rinse off, wash lower quarters separately, sheet rinse, etc).

I'm beginning to determine I'll need at least couple of products- polish, Last Step Product, clay bar at some stage.

Again, thank-you very much to you all, you've pointed me in the right directions. I'm sure there's no one answer for all of us or perhaps even any of us, but some solutions will be better than others, barring some sophisticated and standardised laboratory comparison in the end it may just be a matter of personal opinion on 'how it looks!'

__________________
Pitrack_1
2010 Forester Diesel