Kean

....no problem. Here is another helpful thread over on the Autopia forums. A member put together a bunch of links to help others:

Helpful Threads For Newbies - Autopia.org

btw, I have since begun using DI (deionized) water for my final rinse. ....best thing since sliced bread. It truly is spot free without having to dry the car off. .....and I'm really picky. I still use the blower to get off the standing water but it makes a huge difference in my routine. The only drawback is the price of the filtration (I use CR Spotless).

 

phillihp34

thnx for the detailed info KEAN.

Kean

....no problem. I probably spend more time than I should on various detailing sites and have experimented with several products, tools & techniques myself through the years. Either way, I don't mind passing along info or spending an extra minute providing links to the same wellsprings I draw from to help a fellow member.

I encourage folks to do their own research. You will see that there are typically a few solutions to the same problem (all roads lead to Rome). Some subjects can get a little confusing since it seems even the pros/experts can't agree. ....don't get discouraged. I beleive the answer to the question "which solution is best for me" all depends on the individual user and what they are most comfortable & satisfied with. I'm always changing up my routine myself so what I use at one point may be different than what I'm using 6 months down the road (e.g. like the deionization system I mentioned earlier).

MumblinBerk

"Detailing" confusion.

First, thanks to all for taking the time to contribute to these forums.
What an education!
With all the product out there, it seems one would be "doomed" if you just go to the auto store and pluck something off the shelf after reading the lable.

(I won't be using spic-n-span and bath towels on my cars anymore.)

I've done a ton of reading over at AUTOPIA to get myself eductated, before I comit to a particular regime / product line.

I'm starting off today with a proper wash of my (now filthy) new Foz using the right tools and techniques. I'm off to gather my basics in a few minutes.

But my concern is following the wash!

It seems that all the multi-step processes are more geared toward older vehicles that need more work. Should I really be USING a product like the "Klass Twins" on a brand new factory finish?

I don't mind doing the work, as long as I'm doing the right thing.

Would it be better for the new car finish to just use some kind of "finish" coat product right after washing?

Is AIO appropriate to use on a new finish?

If so, does it NEED to be "sealed" and waxed after?


I know these probably sound like stupid questions, but I don't want to mess things up with over-kill, which I have a tendency to do.

I keep reading about people having trouble with Klass SG removal.
Any recomendations for a more user-friendly sealer compatilbe with AIO?

Thanks in advance.

__________________
-Berk
2010 2.5X "Premium" 4EAT (SnowBall)

Benero

Wash it with the two bucket technique.

Wax it with Zymol paste, it's the best in carnauba contens, over 31%.

Keep shine with Zymol Field Wax.

Once a year clay it.

Keep cotton towels for washing and micro fiber towels for drying.

Enjoy it, don't get obsesed in keeping it clean because it will get dirty any way.

__________________
2000 Impreza RS
2007 Forester X

Kean

Hi Berk,

I've got stuff going on today but I will try to help briefly answer your questions....

First, kudos for taking the time to do some research on the subject. Yes, it can get confusing especially when confronted with the myriad of products, tools and techniques that are out there. However, don't get discouraged. You will typically find a handful you can narrow it down to based on the opinions & reviews of others. ....cutting your chances down of wasting money with something you're really not satisfied with. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and put things into perspective.

Klasse AIO: K-AIO is a "all in one" product. As with others like it (Zaino AIO comes to mind), it is a relatively light paint cleanser (meant to remove light contamination, oxidation, pervious LSP's, etc.) and replace it with it's own coat of protection/sealant. ....whether your car is new or old. We're not talking about the use of heavy compounds or polishes here (which might be needed to correct scratches and or moderate/severe oxidation).

Klasse SG: K-SG is just a sealant with no cleansing abilities like its sibling. K-AIO is a relatively durable sealant in itself but SG does a better job in this respect. It is also finicky as you mentioned (which is why I never chose to use it when I was was trying out K-AIO). However, there are a few tips and write-ups that may go against the manufacturer's recommendation on use of the product but have helped others in its application/removal. The following articles are from DavidB (of Autopia) gong over the basics of the twins:

Klasse User's Guide - Autopia.org
Revisiting An Old Friend With Klasse - Autopia.org

...and here are a couple of articles showing alternative methods others have used with apparent success:

Klasse SG Wipe on, Wipe off, Official Application Instructions - Autopia.org
Klasse HGSG Application & Removal... - Autopia.org

Make sure to read all of the comments since there is sometimes some valuable insight you might miss. Also, do a search on Autopia using keywords like "Klasse SG application". After a little experimenting you will hopefully find a solution that works for you. ....and that is what really matters after all.

As for whether or not you need to do any of this (AIO, sealant, etc.) is all dependent on your particular situation. Evaluation is key. If your car hasn't had an LSP applied to it (or if it has but is no longer providing protection), then I would say you should.

btw, these are not stupid questions you are asking.

Kean

....with this comment I would wonder why you would recommend a pricy boutique brand or worry about things like carnauba content in the first place? There are plenty of OTC products from folks like Collinite, Duragloss, Meguiars, etc. that provide excellent durability and a decent look at a fraction of the cost.

As for claying, that will depend on the individual situation based on various factors (LSP used, where the car is parked, how often it is driven, proximty to contaminate sources, etc.). As with other tools/products of this type, use as necessary.

.....wash media is debateable.

Jayboy

I take mine to an automated "no touch" car wash. It sprays it with water, coats it with soap foam, and then power rinses it with water. Nothing ever touches and it looks great afterwards.

I think I'll have it professionally detailed about once a year.

__________________
2010 XT Limited w/nav, Black. Sports grille.

Kean

....unfortunately those touchless washes will typically use detergents & chemicals (like hydroflouric acid) to help remove dirt, road grime, etc. since no agitation is involved. ....likely affecting the longevity of your LSP in the process. Personally, I have had to use them in a pinch while traveling in the past and while they get the majority of the dirt off, the are a far cry from the result I can achieve by hand washing. ....but that's just me. Everyone's standards/expectations are not the same.

JB03F20C

I think you overlooked a few things. For one the Klasse Twins came in 3rd in a wax comparison test just a few years ago. Don't remember the link but to say their outdated is just completely wrong!
Second there is a secret to the SG that people don't know about and why there is such a misconception about it. SG is hard to remove if you do not know the secret . The secret is you need to let SG "DRY" for 24 hours and it will be much easier to remove. Use damp towel then dry towel to buff out one panel at a time after the 24 hour time period. If it streaks your damp towel is too dry . Do these things and it is simple and easy . Try to remove it before 24 hrs is where people run into a problem . It does not want to come off because it is not fully cured .

MumblinBerk

Thank you all, for your responses!

Kean: Fantastic thread on the SG application technique.

Folliwng my post, I've continued my "education" and now have a very good foundation for understanding the processes, techniques, products, and how / why they are used.

In case anyones interested:

Following a PROPER wash technique, I did a thorough inspection of the finish.
It's pristine. (which I would expect).

With the exception of a little clay cleaning on the nose, and side mirrors, I'm good to go with a final step.

Most importantly, I now know how to protect my finish, and maintain it right from the beginning, which is exactly what I wanted to accomplish.

My conclusion, is that understanding the process and your techniques are far more important (especially to a newbie) than which "miracle wax" is the best.

Thanks for the encouragement.
Lots of great info.

__________________
-Berk
2010 2.5X "Premium" 4EAT (SnowBall)

Kean

....my remarks are personal opinion based on my own experience. How I feel about a product's overall performance may be arguable but I don't see it as being completely wrong.

There have been a number of tests through the years testing durability of LSP's. I have no idea what was included in the one you speak of from several years back but I have no doubt that Klasse may have stood out in aspects like durability by comparison. ....I even mentioned that I find they still perform relatively well (relative to other products previously & currently available). ....heck, I still use K-AIO for some tasks. However, when comparing other characteristics (i.e. application) to newer products/technologies, they are simply not worth re-visiting as a "go to" LSP in my case. ....especially in light of the newer WOWA (wipe on, walk away) sealants like Ultima Paint Guard Plus and Optimum Opti-Seal. While the Klasse chemists may have improved the formulation through the 90's to help increase durability, the fact remains that the application/removal process is relatively unchanged.

[QUOTE=JB03F20C;671023] Second there is a secret to the SG that people don't know about and why there is such a misconception about it. SG is hard to remove if you do not know the secret . The secret is you need to let SG "DRY" for 24 hours and it will be much easier to remove. Use damp towel then dry towel to buff out one panel at a time after the 24 hour time period. If it streaks your damp towel is too dry . Do these things and it is simple and easy . Try to remove it before 24 hrs is where people run into a problem . It does not want to come off because it is not fully cured .[/QUOTE [quote] ....misconception? I think you just confirmed my assessment. ;)

You may have missed it, but I included links and urged the OP to search on the subject. There are several other processes other users have shared that they found made the removal process easier with K-SG. Personally, waiting 24 hrs for a product to dry prior to removal sounds like a major inconvenience.

In either case, it's all a matter of personal preference. I have said it before and will say it again..... What matters is that you are comfortable/satisfied with your choice of products, techniques & tools.

Kean

....no problem MB. Like I said before, the Klasse twins are still a durable product even when compared to others available today. One aspect I doubt you will be disappointed with. You may want to experiment with the methods on one panel first before commiting to the entire vehicle though. .....btw, I agree with your last comment.

snowonder

Put me down as a convert to the new Turtle Wax ICE. The liquid is unlike anything else on the market, not a creamy polish nor a wax. Closest thing I can compare it to is like a thick wd-40. Boy, it goes on easy and polishes up even easier. Put it on my 09XT and it's lasted the whole summer. With light dirt I can even wash the car just with the rinse at the do-it-yourself car wash, and it doesn't show water marks.

Give it a try, you might like it.

__________________
snowonder
2009 Dark Gray XT Limited

Kean

....there is a myriad of products out there to compare to my friend.

I'm not saying TW ICE is a bad choice, but I would suggest expanding your horizons (i.e. getting online) and checking out other products/technologies. The relatively new WOWA (wipe on, walk away) sealants are just an example. Opti-Seal (from Optimum) and Paint Guard Plus (from Ultima) are two that get consistently good reviews. They are durable, easy to apply (no removal necessary) and provide a nice finish. ....and folks have particularly found OS to be generally friendly/compatible with most other products (i.e. sealants, carnaubas, glazes, QW's/QD's, etc.).

I'm always careful to claim any product as unique, revolutionary or the best. There is simply too many out there and while I can say I have tried quite a few myself, my personal experience only accounts for a fraction of that. Having said that, it's good that you found something you like and are satisfied with the performance. ....in the end, that is what really matters.