Matt,

Where do you even begin to Learn about tuning? Sounds really interesting.

__________________
1998 Forester S, 5MT

MikeDrives1

Thread Starter

Oh man matt, thats a hard one to precisely answer but ill try my best. Eventually i want the information and knowledge i provide here to serve as a source to anyone who wants to pursue this route, whether it be a swap or self tuning.

Ive always had a general idea of how tuning worked since my days with honda's. It only got better with subarus because of the plethora of information available out there. There are TONS of threads on Nasioc (stickys) that all contain links to PDF printouts for tuning guides, basics, where to start, ect. There are loads of guides from the ROMRAIDER website and lots of free programs like ECUflash, romraider , virtual dyno and FREE.SSM. COBBs site also has tons of resources and printable guides, esp on how to establish fuel injector scales, which is how you get the car running in the first place after heavy modifications. The only thing you will have to spend money on is either a Tactrix cable 2.0 for ROMRAIDER/ECUflash users (freeware) or get the Cobb AP and it comes with accesstuner race, only liscenced to your Cobb AP, which you can connect Live to with a USB going to the AP, and the AP connected to the car.

Thats how i do it... Cobb AP and the access tuner program. But trying to think... where did i really start? I guess you could say doing TONs of reading from the Nasioc engine managment forum, the PDF printouts and datalogging. Also, the drive and motivation to learn is key... i was never satisfied with just kinda getting why the car did what it did... i trully wanted to KNOW why and practice it myself. At first i didnt know what the hell i was looking it. Just random numbers and this and that? After time and learning, you start to understand what your looking at and better yet, WHY it is what it is. After all the studying i put in on these guides and practice with datalogging, as well as reading up on other people's datalogs on forums, it starts to pay off and roll along into something that makes more and more sense. I mean, ive got a pretty decent grasp on it now, but theres still so much to learn i find, as i go along.

The biggest concept of it all is that... your not actually telling the ecu what to do exactly... that would be too complicated, Rather your just telling the ecu what you would like it to do, and it trys its best to reach the goals you have put in there, sorting out all the bits inbetween for you. But its up to the tuner to make the setpoints as close as possible to the goals in mind, that way the ecu isnt freaking out, trying hard to make corrections, fight off knock, but rather run smoothly and happily.


Lets put it this way... for example, what i had to encounter tonight. The symptom was that the car, when floored in 5th and 6th gear, would spool up and initially overshoot its set boost target of 21.5 PSI, to a spike of 24psi for a few seconds, then come down and work towards its setpoint. Theres a few ways to approach this issue by either modifying the wastegate duty cycle table to call for less boost in the affected regions (low rpm spoolups) , or / and play with the turbo dynamic tables, in lamens terms, the tables that dictate how much authority the wastegate has to correct itself when it over or undershoots a set boost target goal. The issue with mine was that it was spiking initially, and then hunting slightly (swinging up a psi, down a psi, then settling on 21.5 psi) and searching for its setpoint for a few moments before acheiving the desired boost level.

So what i did was i made some adjustments to the Turbo dynamics tables, closing the gap ever so slightly, and smoothing its transition from one end to another. Next was what really made the difference... just taking the affected region and inputing a slightly less wastegate duty cycle. This almost instantly solved the problem of it spiking, just by taking 3 cells and changing them down by a few percent.



It gets much deeper than that though, but in time anyone can come to understand it. Heck, im still learning about it everyday. I could literally type for hours here and try to explain every table as i understand it, but my best advice to anyone at all.... invest in a wideband AF sensor setup... i use the AEM eugo. It is, and i stress, THE definitive and BEST tool out there for ANYONE from the normal car enthusiast to experienced dyno tuner, it will tell you just about everything you need to know about whats going on in the motor and how well it is working.

__________________
- 2001FSTi: Currently rebuilding....
- 1996 Civic LX. The daily gas sipper.

Matt,

Wow, good stuff Mike! That just sounds really cool to be that in depth with your car. I'm going to school right now to learn about cars and I don't think I want to end up at a dealership just fixing them. I want to make them go faster and tuning sounds like it would be a great thing to learn about.
Now i just need a turbo Subaru lol.

Thanks for the info! I'm off to nasioc to do some research!

__________________
1998 Forester S, 5MT

MikeDrives1

Thread Starter

Anytime my man, and hey, theres nothing wrong with just fixing cars. I started out at a honda dealership making ~9$ an hour just doing oil / fluid changes, tire changes, minor repairs and the occasional brake or belt job. Wasnt exactly a whole ton of fun after doing it everyday for awhile, but it def paved the way for me to learn more about cars. If anything, starting as a tech at a dealership would only strengthen your knowledge base because you will learn the mechanical aspect of the cars, and can always progress forward to become more knowledgable in their tuning aspects, (if you chose to get a job at a subaru dealer). Nowhere will anyone ever prevent you from learning what you want to do or are passionate about, outside of work. Once work becomes routine, you can spend all the time you want outside of it pursuing something you wish to turn into a career. I can only dream right now to one day become an affluent tuner and be very good at it, but it starts somewhere.




So, did a few more runs today to test out how the new WGDC tables hold up, and so far so good with the exception being that in lower gears im not quite hitting 21.5 exactly , rather only about 20 to 20.8 psi. This is very minor in the grand scheme of things, whats important is that it has a MUCH smoother curve to it , with the sacrafice of some ft-lbs of torque over the last time. Its a very humble start, but ill work it back up ever so slowly. She's pulling good HP up top, but id like to work towards making that initial torque band like my previous tune's had that gave you a wall torque down low. I think that will take some working with the AVCS and DAM down at the bottom end... in very small incriments of course.

The Mantra of any (aprehensive) self tuner... Make small changes, then datalog the S**t out it for days, lol

__________________
- 2001FSTi: Currently rebuilding....
- 1996 Civic LX. The daily gas sipper.

02foresterL

Those are still some damn good numbers. Did you take it out for fun in the snow this past weekend?

__________________
My Member Journal

MikeDrives1

Thread Starter

Thanks man! I would have liked to mike, except for the fact that all we got here was...

RAIN




No but seriously, i did not get to experience any snow yet with this beast. The snow tires havent had a chance to go on and shine.... yet.

I eagerly await the next major snow event for this area. Ill be ready!

__________________
- 2001FSTi: Currently rebuilding....
- 1996 Civic LX. The daily gas sipper.

MikeDrives1

Thread Starter

Very important tuning lesson for the day.... when using any tuning program.... Dont forget negative signs where needed.



*the more you know*

__________________
- 2001FSTi: Currently rebuilding....
- 1996 Civic LX. The daily gas sipper.

MiGz_clumbz

awesome stuff mike im truly a fan of your car! Dead Serious! lol ..
btw ive been meaning to ask you for a while now ..what do i need to put a turbo swap on our model forester ..if you could send me a list as a PM or something when ever you get a chance that would be great

-Migz

MikeDrives1

Thread Starter

That is a trully tough question with 15 different ways you could go. I mean, if you get a chance, take a read on here in some previous pages to get the nitty gritty odds and ends, mostly all posted around last year (this time) when i was getting swapped.

But as far as a straight STi swap goes, heres the basic list of whats needed for out year

-Complete and Whole STi motor with intake/DP and FXT catback exhaust.
-6spd STi trans with shift linkage and trans crossmember
-98-02 Automatic forester Driveshaft
-02-05 WRX 3.90 rear diff (r160) or R180 from sti if you want to do hub swapping.
-any 93-07 Subaru turbo front crossmember
-Drive by wire throttle pedal
-Complete (whole car) STi wiring harness
-Complete stock forester (your year) wiring harness (both harnesses must be merged by a wiring professional)
-STi power steering setup pump and lines
-STi ecu
-STi Fuel pressure controller
-upgraded fuel pump
-An insane amount of odds and ends and little things like a boost controller (stock preferably), nuts, bolts, hoses, connectors, anything that the complete motor may be missing.
-Some form of DCCD controll



Like i said, i cant recall everything off the top of my head, but there definatley is a boatload of info here in my swap guide. Its a very heavy task to take on, there is a real lot involved to transform the car. It is completely worth the time, pain and money though. The results are amazing and its much more affordable down the road than an STI as far as insurance is concerned.

__________________
- 2001FSTi: Currently rebuilding....
- 1996 Civic LX. The daily gas sipper.

02foresterL

We barely got an inch but it was plenty to have some fun in. Being lower and these lowish profile tires really were an aid in having fun in the snow. If I put my snow tires on I'd probably get too much traction.

__________________
My Member Journal

MikeDrives1

Thread Starter

I really hope this wont be season #2 of the blizzaks just sitting in the attic, lol

__________________
- 2001FSTi: Currently rebuilding....
- 1996 Civic LX. The daily gas sipper.

MiGz_clumbz

Thanks bro that is really helpful. I'm just trying to see what's more affordale buyin a wrecked sti or just piecing it together when the time comes I'm sure I'll figure it out what to really do I sure want boost in my life!

aeok18109

Well i just spent all night reading 128 pages of this from start to finish. BEASTMODE Foz man. This is yet another reason as to why I want a forester. The wife is going to kick my *** when I finally pull the trigger on a forester XT ^_^. Some of your early vids are gone and you don't seem to have anything more than like 30 secs showing this thing off. I like the lip but to be honest I don't like the color scheme of the front end. Doesn't look bad IMO I just think its too dark. The car is nuckin futs for sure tho man. Great job.

MikeDrives1

Thread Starter

Well theres a few routes, but if you could source and pay for a whole (wrecked) STi , which i had thought about doing.... the swap would be pretty much set at that point... you have EVERYTHING that would be needed. Rob (member here who inspired me) did just that.... but he transplanted everything, like the gas tank, the fuel system, all the suspension and chassis componenets, the entire interior as well... the stock DCCD system, steering setup, ect, ... you name it, he swapped it.

Hey thanks man! Im honored you read through it


You wont regret a forestr XT, and i doubt your wife will be mad at you for very long... it would grow on her.


And yeah, i dont publicize the thing too much, however id like to work on a big(ger) video of it if i could get the time to.

__________________
- 2001FSTi: Currently rebuilding....
- 1996 Civic LX. The daily gas sipper.

MiGz_clumbz

niceee. . That's sounds like something I would dead *** lol and r Thanks for the input bro. . You pretty much are my inspiration lol